If you participate in this thread/experiment, you are agreeing to be my test subject. This is a no spam thread.

I am only going to give you the subject of the experiment, Phobos. What happens next, will be your own research and knowledge. I am not going to lead you in any way, other than the subject.

The more people who put an hour or so into this, the better. I'd like to see what a collection of people can come up with.

This is not for any class or government study. Just something I wanted to try. Once it concludes, I'll explain why I wanted it done this way. Until this experiment concludes, I will not be posting again in this thread.

I know nothing .. I looked it up on Wikipedia. I think you need to be a little less general in your question. Are we talking about peoples fears, Greek Mythology, or the Solar System?

“Phobos has been a collector of ejected Martian surface material for billions of years. That material is a record of the history of early Mars that may not even be preserved on Mars itself due to weathering..."

Some interesting stuff for sure, especially considering that we know that at one point Mars probably DID have running water. Exploring Phobos, and the material frozen within it from being ejected from Mars, would be a great benefit.

Plus, setting up a base on Phobos would allow us to access Mars much easier. Part of the problem of unmanned exploration at this point is the lag in latency for information being sent/rec'd from the Red Planet.

I know that Phobos is the larger of Mars' two moons, though it's almost more an asteroid than a moon size-wise. It's also doomed due to the fact that it orbits very close to Mars, and it's orbit is decaying. It also has a huge impact crater on it.

What we will need to do first is to overcome the problem of a reliable and worthwhile propulsion system. This can be done in two ways:

1) The easiest way to get around this issue is to somehow launch from space, or from our own Moon. Launching from the Earth is not useful because of the sheer amount of fuel that has to be burnt in order for the large payloads to get past Earth's gravity and atmosphere. So, we need a Space Dock or a Moon Base. Either of the two would do, although a Moon Base would benefit us greater in the long run simply because we'd be able to build larger living areas and work on a solid ground.

2) A new type of propulsion system must be invented, one that we would kick in and use after the payload was launched from the Earth Solid and liquid fuels we use now would get us into orbit and then the new propulsion system would be activated. This needs to happen because it's not feasible to attempt to carry the required amount of solid/liquid fuels on a normal rocket that could overcome gravity and STILL make it to another planet. This could include pulsating plasma boosters, solar sails (which could take a while to build up the necessary speed) or something along these lines. I don't feel that we'll be able to construct a FTL (faster than light) engine anytime within this century.

2) A new type of propulsion system must be invented, one that we would kick in and use after the payload was launched from the Earth Solid and liquid fuels we use now would get us into orbit and then the new propulsion system would be activated. This needs to happen because it's not feasible to attempt to carry the required amount of solid/liquid fuels on a normal rocket that could overcome gravity and STILL make it to another planet.

Once an object is moving in an area with extremely low to no gravity it will stay in movement indefinitely, so once an object is out of earths orbit it no longer needs a propulsion system to keep it moving.

Once an object is moving in an area with extremely low to no gravity it will stay in movement indefinitely, so once an object is out of earths orbit it no longer needs a propulsion system to keep it moving.

You are correct, but in order to cross the distances required in an acceptable amount of time we would need a propulsion system like I describe. Obviously, I feel that a plasma propulsion system would be the best. Short bursts fired periodically would continually increase the speed of the craft, allowing it to cover the vast distances we're looking at crossing.

You are correct, but in order to cross the distances required in an acceptable amount of time we would need a propulsion system like I describe. Obviously, I feel that a plasma propulsion system would be the best. Short bursts fired periodically would continually increase the speed of the craft, allowing it to cover the vast distances we're looking at crossing.

I see what you mean, without gravity an objects speed isn't worn down, so speed can only be added. But there is a nagging thought in the back of my head, wouldn't the fuel and the way it is used have a maximum speed?

I see what you mean, without gravity an objects speed isn't worn down, so speed can only be added. But there is a nagging thought in the back of my head, wouldn't the fuel and the way it is used have a maximum speed?

You are correct, but theoretically we could achieve some pretty incredible speeds. I'm talking a few hundred thousand miles per hour which would be more than enough to jet us around our own Solar System. (For the record the speed of light is about 671 million miles per hour, or 186,000 miles per second).

The two most efficient things I can think of would be 1) Plasma Propulsion, generating a small burst every so often or 2) Solar Sails which would continually build up speed over an extended period of time. The sails however would take much longer to build up to speed in comparison to some sort of burst propulsion though.

Mars, at it's greatest distance from the Earth, is roughly 250 million miles away.

Say we could get up to even 500,000 miles per hour (an incredibly fast speed to fathom, and only about 0.000745th the speed of light) it would take us about a month to make the trip (assuming my math is correct. I was never any good at math)

While traveling there will require a ton of work and is very interesting, shouldn't we have a base on our own moon before we go to a neighboring planet's dying moon?

There is, however, some really weird stuff going on with Mars and its moons. There are 2 large unexplainable monoliths in a direct parallel to each other on Phobos and a matching one on the surface of Mars itself. If compared to the pyramids in Giza, the shadows cast are quite eerily similar.

My initial thoughts on reading in to this were they are remnants of meteors or parts from Mars that didn't disintegrate upon impact. However, are we to believe that they are in an almost perfect parallel by sheer accident/luck? How did they get there? What are they? This, in my mind, brings about the conversation of other beings being out there and many many other questions...

While traveling there will require a ton of work and is very interesting, shouldn't we have a base on our own moon before we go to a neighboring planet's dying moon?

I fully support that. It would make our space travels much easier, not to mention low gravity launches to preserve resources and time.

Your comment on the pyramids is also interesting. It makes me wonder why no less than three major cultures, all spread out over our own globe contructed such structures that are not only incredibly similar but also mathmatically gorgeous and accurate, aligning with major points in the sky and aliging to magnetic features of the Earth.

Coincidence?

I fully support that. It would make our space travels much easier, not to mention low gravity launches to preserve resources and time.

Your comment on the pyramids is also interesting. It makes me wonder why no less than three major cultures, all spread out over our own globe contructed such structures that are not only incredibly similar but also mathmatically gorgeous and accurate, aligning with major points in the sky and aliging to magnetic features of the Earth.

Coincidence?

Man-made structures are extremely interesting. I question all the time what purpose they truly served. We can only guess at their reasoning for existence. However, there are unexplainable structures here on our own planet as well that make no sense.

6 foot deep holes that stretch for a mile or more in Peru:

Various grids around Machu Pichu and even the one below that is close to the strip of holes in Peru. (Phobos apparently has an almost identical set on its surface as well):

Freaky, freaky stuff my friends. I really question exactly how "alone" we are in this world...

Really? Nothing guys? PK will be disappointed...

Really? Nothing guys? PK will be disappointed...

ive been raiding most of the night, but i will look into afterwords. so there will be something

I haven't played around with this too much since I'm on my work computer, but check out this site:

http://www.worldwidetelescope.org/Home.aspx

Amazing. You can use either the Web Based Client (runs right out of your browser) or you can download the Windows Client direct to your computer. Lots of good stuff on Mars, but I haven't seen Phobos on there (again, I'm at work and haven't messed around with it much.)

Mars, at it's greatest distance from the Earth, is roughly 250 million miles away.

Say we could get up to even 500,000 miles per hour (an incredibly fast speed to fathom, and only about 0.000745th the speed of light) it would take us about a month to make the trip (assuming my math is correct. I was never any good at math)

There's actually an ion propulsion system within our technological means right now that, over time, could reach 200,000 mph. It requires no liquid fuel either. The only problem is, with low thrust, it would take time to reach that speed. The solar sails you mentioned would work as well, but you would need a light source to propel it. if we get too far from the sun, it would no longer work (talking leaving our solar system entirely in this case). One idea is to station some powerful lasers on the moon, and use those against the sail.

200,000 miles per hour, while fast, would still take an incredibly long time to reach Mars. I'm talking like 3+ months.

3 months on a space ship would be crazy. We'd have to find someway to hibernate, or have a large enough ship to hold enough supplies to allow us to survive that long in space. Problem with the larger ship is that it'd take even longer to get there due to the size of the ship and acceleration issues.

Nine months, one way is the current estimate for a trip to Mars. Supplies aren't the only problem either. In a zero gravity environment, over time, you lose a lot of bone mass, your heart shrinks, immune system gets compromised, all kinds of health problems. The isolation can mess with someone as well. Right now, NASA is looking at the Navy. Folks who live on submarines for months at a time in particular, to see how a human might get along on a long trip like that.

One idea is to make a big donut that spins, using centrifugal force for artificial gravity. As far as I know though, they haven't built anything yet, but science says we will have a man on Mars someday. And in the not too distant future.

Hibernation man.... it's all about slowing down the body and it's natural functions to reduce the strain on the psyche/health. Cryogenics FTW!

Building some sort of artificial gravity machine would also be helpful for sure, that way you'd lose less bone mass.

I still wonder what PK has in store for this thread. He hasn't said a peep.

Phobos is still cool though. The most interesting thing to me is how close it orbits to Mars and therefore has been capable of collecting material ejected from the planet. Analyzing this would allow us to look back at the environmental history of Mars to see if it supported different kinds of life in the past.

I had to edit the time estimate to get there. I had three months stuck in my head. *Brain fart* The nine month figure is based on a "minimum cost trajectory".

Interestingly, the solar sail idea, over time, say a trip to another star system, could reach 1/10 the speed of light. Now that's frigging fast.

9 months in space would be crazy... I can't imagine it.

Hmmm, this discussion died down pretty quick. Anyone else have anything to contribute?

Some things to consider/discuss:

- Phobos is thought to NOT be a "solid" object. It's known to have signifigant porosity. With this in mind, it's speculated that the internal parts of the rock may contain a large reservoir of ice!

- Due to the strange and off-spherical shape of Phobos, gravity can vary wildly along the surface, sometimes upwards of 210%

- The huge impact crater on Phobos is thought to have been capable of almost completely shattering the moon/asteroid.

- From the surface of Mars, you would regularly be able to see Phobos crossing in front of the Sun. However, due to the size of Phobos it would not be a "true" eclipse of the sun.

- In the late 1950's, Russian Astrophysicist Iosif Samuilovich Shklovsky proposed a "Hollow Phobos" theory. It's quite strange and the allegations are unbelieveable, but he and some others at the time actually believed that Phobos was of artificial origin! The Science Advisor to Dwight Eisenhower at the time, Fred Singer, somewhat supported Iosif's claims in an article he published in the scientific journal Astronautics, claiming:

[Phobos'] purpose would probably be to sweep up radiation in Mars' atmosphere, so that Martians could safely operate around their planet.

Due to incorrect calculations at the time, and failure to take into account the tidal forces of Mars, it was proven in the late 1960's that Phobos could not be completely hollow and now this theory is more of a curiosity to the scientific community.

There! Get talkin' peoples! Don't let PK down!

You guys suck. (And no, this isn't a spam message. LoL)

So what gives PK? What was the purpose of this thread. Seems like it's dying out so you might as well come clean now!

Reminds me of the Death Star..lol.